The Migration Continues...

General Chat - one nine for a roger!

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Adriano9966
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Sat Jan 21, 2012 12:28 am

:? errr...... I dont get it I have a ham ticket but I started out on cb and I'm still a cb operator.Does this mean that by obtaining a ham ticket and progressing in the radio hobby I dont have a right to a point of view about the citizens band?....I dont think so. [-X

I will use everything at my disposition radio wise both cb bands HF /VHF/UHF ham radio and why not 446 pmr?

:| I belive legal am/ssb on 27 mhz is on the way albeit not untill autumn at the earliest and I agree with the above posts that if we dont campain for more the authorities will presume we are content with what we have.
I remember legalisation back in 1981 when we got lumbered with just fm on a set of frequencies that did not correspond with the ones we were using(the FCC band )

:| This was obviously a deliberate ploy to remove any am activity and continued usage of existing transceivers.
The parameters of the new service were restrictive to say the least.... eg only 400mw if the antenna was mounted higher than 7metres and restricted to a 1.5 metre base loaded radiator many of us argued with authorities for years afterwards to change this situation but real change only began due to Europe and not the then DTI.

:lol: The antenna regulations changed in my opinion due to defiance more than anything else the 10db attenuator rule was dropped quickly and the restrictive antenna rules were unenforceable , most operators continued using half and 5/8 wave verticals anyway untill the authorities eventually caved in and allowed those too.

I think what I am trying to say NB with this boring history lesson is that we need to push for better things

Guzzy
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Sat Jan 21, 2012 1:36 pm

Adriano9966 wrote:I think what I am trying to say NB with this boring history lesson is that we need to push for better things
This is very true. In regards to the AM/SSB addition to the CEPT channels, rumour has it that Ofcom officials were overheard to say; "The new multi-mode CB radios will be perfectly legal to buy and sell in the UK. How do you stop them using them in AM or SSB mode?"

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26-TM-037
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Mon Jan 23, 2012 7:17 am

Guzzy wrote:
Adriano9966 wrote:I think what I am trying to say NB with this boring history lesson is that we need to push for better things
This is very true. In regards to the AM/SSB addition to the CEPT channels, rumour has it that Ofcom officials were overheard to say; "The new multi-mode CB radios will be perfectly legal to buy and sell in the UK. How do you stop them using them in AM or SSB mode?"

Indeed Jon... i heard exactly the same, from the same source too i reckon :wink:
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Adriano9966
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Mon Jan 23, 2012 9:44 am

:D Its all very encouraging news

:wink:

Donga
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Mon Jan 23, 2012 1:35 pm

I have a KPO DX 5000 in my car and i use all the bands and all the modes am,fm,ssb etc
Im mainly on CB Frequencies but do go onto the 10 meter on occassion and some of the lower bands.
I know that this radio is not supposed to be used on CB but who is out there that is gonna challange me.
I also have some handheld UHF 5w I know im not supposed to use these but who is gonna challange me.

Im not disrespectfull when i use them so i dont think i will be getting a knock on the door.

needle bender
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Fri Jan 27, 2012 2:44 pm

cb radio on 11 metres works fine...with all mode operation being introduced this year, 11 metres will take a step forward...now because of olga and co...we have a hysterical cry for the introduction of a uhf cb system...all born out of a posting about a mythical migration of cber's to 446 uhf...well if cber's are migrating elsewhere it aint 446...now i will say it again for those who think i have a prob with uhf...yeah ok it would be great to have uhf also...my argument is what you gonna do about it then?....well you will do nothing!!!..just moan on here about it....so get real make the most of 11 metres...and be thankful that someone has got us all mode at long last ...and it wasn't some moaning brit either!!!....also,i will say to all hams, yes if you have technical advice on aspects of radio which will benifit cb radio..thats fine,great i'm listening...but dont preach with a i know better than you attitude...re am verses fm as a prime example for cb use...many years of cbing have already given me the answer to that one...so guys if ya wanna change cb for the better and you got the ideas, i will be the first to sign up for it...but remember action talks...not wishful thinking or moaning... 8)

needle bender
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Fri Jan 27, 2012 7:08 pm

sorry about last post...repeating myself again...Adriano9966 says hams should have a say in the future of cb radio...well my answer is a resounding no, no, no...why should they...how can hams have a foot in each camp....can hams comment on illegal operating on 11 metres..linear amps?..freeband frequencies,am ssb modes..no they cant...at least they cant comment in a positive way...no they have taken the queens shilling...there is no way back for them....i have on this forum been told by a ham to take my ticket if i want to dx....that is in reference to 27 mhz being local comms ....(local comms,i'm still trying to work that one out)...any cber worth his salt well tell you cb radio is about comms full stop...so with due respect to adriano and others..and not meaning to be offensive to you ham guys...you have no right to dictate what cb radio should be.. 8)

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Adriano9966
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Fri Jan 27, 2012 11:19 pm

:? sigh the thread is about pmr 446

:| No offence taken NB but with all due respect citizens band is the domain of ALL those involved in it.I'm not an expert meerly a radio enthusiast I certainly dont preach at people . I'm proud of my humble beginnings.
For me personaly there is no them and us as we are all radio enthusiasts and I distance myself from such divisions.

If we can somehow turn pmr 446 into a uhf cb band I dont see the harm in it myself and as a matter of fact after we obtain a multimode cept on 27mhz(possibly October???) I think this should be next on the agenda!

Some people do regard pmr446 handhelds as 'toys' but its the frequency allocation and its parameters that count 500mw erp would mean unity gain but its a start and theoretically a manufacturer could now already produce a mobile or base transceiver just add a few more channels and a little more power and voila a new uhf cb band is born

needle bender
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Sat Jan 28, 2012 3:25 pm

Hi,i have to disagree with you on two points cb radio and ham are not bed fellows...ham is about theory and construction of radio and antenna,comms are almost secondary to the hobby...cb radio is about comms only...yes some cbers are also into radio and antenna theory, always trying to get a little more from their set up...but i see that as the nature of radio comms...not accepting the limitations of the band in use be it vhf/uhf or hf...yes,i do know that 27 mhz was intended as a short range service..but we both know its capable of more...so to try and stick a local comms only label on it is stupidity in the extreme....i'm sorry for those local nets that are affected by olga and co...our hill billy am net has suffered also here in cornwall...but thats the nature of 11 metres!!!....now as for 446...if you accept it for what it is,that being good for a mile or two only in open country...and forget claims for ridiculous distances by magazine reviewers who are paid to write garbage...then thats fine...now who is going to fight for better specs on 446...the same folks who brought us all mode on 11 metres?....i think not...yeah tiz hot air being spouted again...if you can come up with good ideas i'll sign up for it 10-4...but in the meantime a toy is a toy be it a argos cheapie or £100 top of the range :)

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Sat Jan 28, 2012 4:42 pm

...now as for 446...if you accept it for what it is,that being good for a mile or two only in open country...and forget claims for ridiculous distances by magazine reviewers who are paid to write garbage...then thats fine...now who is going to fight for better specs on 446...the same folks who brought us all mode on 11 metres?....i think not...yeah tiz hot air being spouted again...if you can come up with good ideas i'll sign up for it 10-4...but in the meantime a toy is a toy be it a argos cheapie or £100 top of the range :)[/quote]

. My aim of starting this thread was not to start an argument on 27 v 446. Operators can make a choice depending on what they want from the radio. I agree that I class myself as a radio enthusiast, putting folks into groups of CBers or Radio Amateurs is not healthy for our radio hobby. Live and let Live. I too started on cb and have NEVER looked down on anybody..there are good and bad everywhere. I enjoy ham radio, I enjoy T5, I enjoy UK FM (or did before Olga and my new works van). What I do feel strongly about is standing still. Why we have to argue about whats better is pointless. There will always be 27 mhz..it has, and will always be, a cb band and T5 is as strong as ever (when the angry Scotsman is not about), but why can't folks have a UHF set beside the 27 one? Thats whats happening here, folks are chatting on 446 local and listening around the 27 band and talking on 446 about what they are hearing. Remember..Radio does NOT work if we are all listeners and Activity Breeds Activity.

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Last edited by Bionic Budgie on Sat Jan 28, 2012 5:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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needle bender
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Sat Jan 28, 2012 5:13 pm

Hi budgie,...i am talking 446 bog standard legal specs....you are talking 20 watt ...6 foot antenna 20 in the air!!!...i am fully aware of what is possible...i have used vhf mobile sets both legally and illegal..yes it is a clean band to use and good range is possible ..i never argued contrary..this has now taken a different route...so is this the consensus of opinion that flouting 446 legal specs will make ofcom sit up and listen...tell me more then!!!...

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Adriano9966
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Sat Jan 28, 2012 7:01 pm

:D let me throw down a challenge to you NB if we lobby the regulator for this kind of change will YOU join in and support us???
:| Why do you presume that this is just talk ??

I have been rooting for a replacement to the 934uhf band the reasons for its removal were as follows

claimed low usage

required by lucrative mobile phone contracts

:( AFAIK the 934 mhz band is now not even used by any service

when I could eventually afford a 934mhz transceiver the costs were still prohibitive to the ordinary users....a situation which has now changed in these modern times and with the advances in technology which would mean (with a bit of lobbying) the pmr frequency allocation could be used with mobile and base transceivers which will be affordable to the ordinary user ...... whats wrong with wanting more for our citizens ?????

needle bender
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Sun Jan 29, 2012 11:08 am

Hi,no need to tell me about 934...i scrimped and saved to get me a transciever....only to be eventually kicked off..yes kicked off because there was money to be made out of the band....well, we agree on that!!!...so on to 446...well can you see ofcom allowing a new specification...i cant...so whats to be done, sign a petition...how many petitions were signed for all mode 27 mhz...and what did it achieve?....i tried to gee folks up over all mode...but no success...you can define british folk easily..they are moaners,bogged down in a state of apathy...well,if ya think you can get folks to sign up to a uhf cb system...go for it...i'll sign up also.. :)

needle bender
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Sun Jan 29, 2012 2:15 pm

ah,my point about cb radio and ham not being bed fellows is proven....hams cannot advocate any form of illegal radio...not in theory or in any proactive way..not without the risk of loosing their ticket at the very least..recent edited post proves my point...well i accept that with no problems...i think i will stick with what i know and that is 11 metres in all its forms..tiz where i started and where i belong...olga and co wont destroy it ...but ofcom will with their none action regarding all forms of interference on the hf bands...and vhf/uhf will go the same route :(

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Adriano9966
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Mon Jan 30, 2012 10:32 am

needle bender wrote:....so get real make the most of 11 metres...and be thankful that someone has got us all mode at long last ...and it wasn't some moaning brit either!!!.... remember action talks...not wishful thinking or moaning...


:| If we get this I am thinking positively it has come via the ETSI which is based in Europe but AFAIK the actual testing was done here in the UK with a few British technicians involved

Action???? Moaning Brits ???? :| People here campained for years for a legal AM/FM CB but the authorities would not back down not even when the technical argument was lost regarding potential for harmful interference.They then said not required,not needed ,
The original CEPT allocation was eventually obtained through the UK membership of the C.E.P.T in Europe and not through our lobbying as our Authority just does not seem to listen

:evil: :evil: :evil: Two useless petitions to downing street (one of them MINE :evil: )just went to prove this.

Dont believe that we did not write to a few people as well in authority regarding this and other issues in the past

:roll: I have already done this argument to death over on transmission1

[-X I have always sought legality for radio operators long before becoming a radio amatuer.(This is the way forward
dont you think NB????? .) I started out when cb was illegal and you had to fear that dreaded knock on the door.

:| This is why a lot of us campained for LEGAL cb,better antennas,no power restriction above a certain height and legal AM/SSB for the citizens band .

:evil: I'm not getting involved in any ham against cb rubbish :evil: we have far too much of this shameful stuff on radio as it is eg foundation operators being called cornflake packet licence holders etc Cb operators around here telling me I should stick on 'radio ham' and not use the cb at all to have a chat
Its just snobbery :roll:

you would sign up to a campain to adopt the pmr band as another UHF cb band thats great I have nothing to add to what has already been said on this thread. If we actually get it many of the transceivers and equiptment could/would be imported from Australia ... so not toys at all !

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